How To Build A Tribe Of Raving Fans

Tom Matzen speaks in a way that only a true business expert can speak. He approaches entrepreneurship with clear, established strategies that developed through real-world experiences. Tom provides advice that is meaningful to every aspiring entrepreneur and guarantees results. With his knowledge, he has helped authority entrepreneurs make a seven-figure income.  

Yet, Tom hasn’t always been the sought-after international speaker and strategist that he is now. Tom is proud of what he has achieved and isn’t ashamed of the blunders he made along the way. When Tom decided to “swim with the sharks,” it resulted in a $10 million debt. Did he take it as a signal to stop? No. Tom says, ” As an entrepreneur, your best lessons are often from your biggest failures, your biggest mistakes, your biggest flops. Certainly, that’s been the case for me. I think now I’ve come to the realization that it’s not about eliminating the peaks and valleys, it’s about shortening the downtime and bouncing back faster.”   

Tom seeks to empower entrepreneurs who will make the world a better place. If you’re one of those entrepreneurs, this episode is jam-packed with invaluable and actionable advice, so ready yourself and listen carefully. 

Episode Summary 

  • Be gracious in defeat. One must accept the fact that mistakes and failures are part of the deal. It is inevitable, and one must learn to deal with it and work around it. 
  • Find a mentor. Do not feel embarrassed or hesitate to learn from others. In the future, trust that you might even surpass them. 
  • Be flexible. If something is not working, rethink your strategy.  
  • Dream big. Pick your dream team ahead of time and make sure they share your values. 


Covered in This Episode 

[02:08] A Short Intro to What Entrepreneurship Means 


[03:09] Journey  

[04:29] Risk Reversal and Offering Amazing Guarantees with Jay Abraham 

[05:12] Systems and Processes with Michael Gerber 

[05:58] Setting a Goal the Elon Musk Way 

[07:04] Helping Authority Entrepreneurs 

[07:47] 1 Plus 1 Equals 11 

[10:24] Swimming with the Sharks 


[17:28] Will Help You If You Just Ask 

[19:21] The Money is in the List 

[55:15] Dream 100 by Chet Holmes 

[1:00:40] Where to Focus Ones Energy On? 

The Five Strategies in Growing a List 

[20:41] The Importance of the Tribe (Raving Fans) 

[22:59] 1st: Appeal to Nobler Instincts 

[26:41] 2nd: Get All Your Ducks in a Row 

[34:40] 3rd: Buy Your Way In 

[45:43] 4th: Cloning 

[48:07] 5th: Seven Ways to Avoid Being Ripped Off By Your Partner  

[1:03:00] How to Contact Tom Matzen 


Do Good And Make Money Super Summit: http://dogoodandmakemoney.org/ 

How To Ethically Profit From Chaos: https://masterclass.entrepreneurempowerment.org/profit-from-chaos/ 

Guest Information 

Website: http://www.tommatzen.com/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tom.matzen 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ravingfans4life 


Episode Transcript

Chris Ippolito 01:06 

Hi, Tom. 


Tom Matzen 01:08 



Chris Ippolito 01:09 

How are you? 


Tom Matzen 01:10 

I’m doing awesome, Chris. How are you? 


Chris Ippolito 01:11 

I’m doing great. I’m a little excited about this episode because, I mentioned this before we started recording, it’s a bit of a couple of firsts. This is the first time that I’m doing an episode without actually doing a pre-interview. I want to preface that because there’s going to probably be some different conversation here a little bit. But we did chat beforehand, I feel good. You’re a fellow Canadian, there’s obviously the instant bond there. 


Tom Matzen 01:39 

Instant bond. But the good news for your listeners is I am bilingual, I speak American and Canadian. 


Chris Ippolito 01:44 

Perfect. Actually, no, the majority of my audience is from Canada. 


Tom Matzen 01:50 

Oh, no. We should probably speak Canadian for this then. 


Chris Ippolito 01:51 

Yeah, which is really strange because the majority of my guests are Americans. But we’ll see. 


Tom Matzen 01:55 

“We’ll have to go to Timmy’s, aye? Grab some Timbits.” 


Chris Ippolito 01:59 

I’d love if you could share your story, let the audience know who you are and what your journey has been to get to where you’re at now. 


Tom Matzen 02:08 

Yeah, absolutely. First off, I appreciate taking the time to chat today. I’ve been an entrepreneur for 36 years. 36 years, made and lost millions along the way many times over. I say that because as an entrepreneur your best lessons are often from your biggest failures, your biggest mistakes, your biggest flops. Certainly that’s been the case for me. I think now I’ve come to the realization that it’s not about eliminating the peaks and valleys, it’s about shortening the downtime and bouncing back faster. 


The planet is going through that as we record this. We broadcast later, hopefully we’re out of the craziness. But as we’re recording this, it’s going to get crazier before it gets better. Well, welcome to life as an entrepreneur. Right? As an entrepreneur, those that want to be an entrepreneur, one of the crazy advantages you have is you get to control your destiny. One of the crazy disadvantages you have is that you’re in charge of your destiny, no one else is. 


That journey for me, I mean I started in the corporate side and I loved it, but I realized early on I make a lousy employee. We were talking about this, in one of your previous careers with one of the big banks you’d give an idea and they’d say, “Yeah, that’s not your job. That’s not your job, Chris, to give ideas, we have entire departments that get at new ideas. Just do your job.” I was like that, and I hated that. I didn’t last in that environment, I wasn’t good. I would actually work, take a new job, take a new job, and take a new job until I stopped learning. I learned early on in the first 30, 40 years learn as much as you can, and in the next 30, 40 years earn as much as you can. Just be learning, be having fun. 


I would do that and I was always a good employee. I want to be clear, I was always a good employee, but I also knew I was never going to last in that environment. That I was going to have the impact I wanted, the income I wanted, or the influence I wanted, I needed to be an entrepreneur. I went out on my own years ago. I had businesses part-time while I was in the corporate side, but I went full-time, I think it’s now 36 years ago. What did Alex Mandossian call us? We’re BGs, we’re before Google on the Internet. 


Chris Ippolito 04:23 

Before Google, okay. 


Tom Matzen 04:26 

Which puts a lot of context on that side. It’s been a great journey and it’s changed, the journey, who I work with, how I help. Initially I was helping small business owners, bricks and mortar, service-based businesses grow and scale. That was a lot of fun and I got very good at it so I could charge a lot of money. I learned early on from one of my mentors. We were talking in a quick little pre-interview about Jay Abraham, he was my personal coach for a number of years, one of the smartest guys in marketing. I learned risk reversal and offering an amazing guarantee at 23. I learned to guarantee results as a coach. For those of you that don’t guarantee results as a coach, especially if you’re a business coach, you’re leaving money on the table. You’re just leaving money on the table. 


Fortunately I learned that early, I got into that, then I realized I would double their sales and I would leave them in chaos. It was a disaster. I was like, “Why is it in such chaos?” Well, they didn’t have the systems for double the sales. They didn’t have the systems. I was fortunate enough to hook up with Michael Gerber, I became an E-Myth Mastery Coach for a number of years, worked with one of the smartest guys on systems and “präsesēz.” Or “prōsesēz,” right, Canadians? Turn-keying their business and having the business work with or without the owner. I realized you need both. Right? You need both. You need systems in place so the business works with or without you. You need sales, you need revenue, you need new business. You need both to have a flourishing business. 


I’ve since added in you also need to be able to give back, you need to look at the planet and say, “How can I make the world a better place?” I have a simple philosophy, Chris. Business has messed up the plant and it’s not government’s job to fix it, it’s business’ job to fix it. If you think about it, everything worthwhile somewhere along the way an entrepreneur said, “I can make that better,” or, “I could invent this,” it’s not even there yet, “I could invent this,” or whatever it happens to be. My son, he’s 13. He’s a big Elon Musk fan. He tweeted out as we record this that Elon Musk has predicted he’s going to have a flying Tesla within six years. 


Chris Ippolito 06:39 

That’s crazy. 


Tom Matzen 06:40 

Anyone else in the world I’d be like, “What a nutcase.” Elon I’m like, “Can I put a deposit down? Can I put a deposit down?” Will he pull it off in six years? Probably not. But if he sets it as a goal, the odds of him pulling it off are really good, really impressive. I just love that entrepreneurial spirit, always have. Now my journey really is about helping authority entrepreneurs, that’s what I call it, people that have knowledge and wisdom, package that knowledge and wisdom, sell it to the world, and make a really good living at it, what I call a seven-figure income. Because nowadays there are a lot of things you can do with your money, but you’ve got to have it if you’re going to make that impact on the world, if you’re going to give back, if you’re going to make a difference. That comes with building an income that’s commensurate with that. 


That’s a quick summary. How’s that? 


Chris Ippolito 07:34 

That was good, I like that. I know in your bio you had mentioned that you built like 82 different businesses? Is that number still up to date or is it now like 83 or 84? 


Tom Matzen 07:47 

No, that’s out of date, that’s out of date. If I updated it, it would probably be 87 right now. But 82 is what our PR team has got in the press release, I didn’t want to change that with everyone. But yeah. I love, and then for years loved, starting businesses. In the last 20 years it’s primarily been joint ventures. We’ll partner up and we’ll say, “Okay, you’re really good at that, I’m really good at this, let’s partner up and do something together.” I look for what I call 1 plus 1 is 11. Right? That the combination isn’t just two of us putting our resources together, then one of us is redundant. Right? But if together what we come up with is so much better than the separate parts, that’s a good strategic alliance or joint venture. 


That’s what most of them are now, I look for ways to leverage impact, influence, and income. I like doing that with people. We’re in the people business. Even though we’re cyber, right? We’re in the people business, that’s how we connect and make a difference. 


Chris Ippolito 08:47 

Well, if anything, I think being cyber just opens up the opportunities for more people to connect with, right? Rather than having to worry about, “Is this guy local or in my country?,” you can start business ventures with somebody over in Europe or Australia or whatever, it doesn’t matter. 


Tom Matzen 09:04 

To the Canadians listening in, you can get paid in U.S. dollars. 


Chris Ippolito 09:08 



Tom Matzen 09:09 

You know what’s really fun? Getting paid in U.S. dollars by a Canadian. 


Chris Ippolito 09:13 

Yes, I agree. 


Tom Matzen 09:14 

Because then you know you created real value in the proposition. 


Chris Ippolito 09:18 



Tom Matzen 09:20 

Hi, Myrna. Shout-out to Myrna. 


Chris Ippolito 09:23 

The term that’s used in the FIRE community is geoarbitrage. You build a business getting paid in U.S. dollars, but then you live in a country where that U.S. dollar is actually a higher value currency. Which Canada is, it’s not the biggest arbitrage. But there’s people that live in Mexico or Thailand and they build their business making U.S. dollars, and obviously they’re like, “I’m rolling in it because of the exchange rate.” I love that. 


A question I wanted to ask, because I love asking this, especially with somebody who’s had so many different businesses. I know you share this, that you’ve had a lot of failures. But in hindsight, looking back at some of those losses, what would be one of the losses that ended up turning out to be one of the most valuable lessons learned? 


Tom Matzen 10:19 

Oh, that’s easy, that’s easy. It’s pretty dramatic, too, and it’s got a Canadian twist. 


Chris Ippolito 10:23 

Ooh, I like it. 


Tom Matzen 10:24 

We were building indoor golf training center franchises. The sport of golf, indoor, learning how to golf, guaranteed results from lessons, big indoor training centers. We were franchising them and growing. We decided, as part of our expansion strategy, to go public. We did what technically is called an RTO, a reverse takeover, on the Toronto Stock Exchange. The TSX Venture it was called then, which is the mini exchange in Canada on the West Coast. Knew nothing about that world whatsoever, but knew lots about the other world. 


As we started to grow and realize that was our path, we said, “We’ve got to bring a CEO in when we go public to take over who’s got public company experience.” Because I didn’t know a lot, but I knew that the public company world was filled with sharks. We wanted someone who could take that on so we could flourish as we did that. 


We hired a firm to do a job search to replace me, we had 600 and some candidates on the list, and they narrowed it down to the top 12. Myself and the board interviewed all of the 12 and we narrowed it down to the top 2. They were both way overqualified for this company, but awesome, interested, wanting to be part of it, and wanting to help us scale and break through. We took the top guy, made him an offer, and he said “yes.” We’re like, “Fantastic.” 


We brought him in, vastly overqualified, I stepped aside as part of the plan, and he took over. My wife said, “You can’t put him in there, you can’t put him in that role, he’s a shark.” We’re like, “Well, we know he’s a shark, we want a shark because we’re going into the public company world, we need someone that can swim with the sharks and hold our own.” Of course, famous words. Six months later he takes all the cash out of the till, we miss a filing, the company is delisted, and I famously go from $21 million in an IPO into $10 million in debt in six easy months. 


Chris Ippolito 12:26 

Holy moly. 


Tom Matzen 12:28 

It turns out that when I stepped down, the contract that prevented him from doing that was changed by him, that I was no longer there to be the check and balance. He was able to change it as CEO. He took the funds, not illegally, but rather as an advance on payment, which he was then able to say he could do, knowing full well the company would get delisted. It caused this cascading effect. 


I realized many months later that the biggest single lesson is never go into business with sharks. Go into business with dolphins if you’re a dolphin. If you’re a shark, go into business with sharks, fine, you can kill each other and have fun. But if you’re a dolphin, if you want to make the world a better place, if you’re a team player, if you believe in fun, if you believe in the spirit of play, you do not go into business with a shark because their job is to eat you, that’s their job. 


Who’s the fool? Well, in this situation it was me. I was the CEO, I was the guy that signed off on it. I knew he was a shark, Chris. I knew it. I actually wanted that, that’s how silly I was. I wanted that shark. When he sharked us, which is the clean way of saying what he did, what a surprise, he’s being a shark, that’s his job. He then bought out a major restaurant chain in the States with a venture capital firm, put that into receivership. With a separate capital group, bought that whole bankrupt restaurant chain, 10 cents on the dollar. Is now the CEO of that restaurant chain laughing all the way to bank and he’s burned hundreds of millions of dollars along the way, that’s what he does. 


Chris Ippolito 14:10 

That’s crazy. 


Tom Matzen 14:11 

That’s what he does. The lesson, for those of you tuning in, is if you’re not prepared to give your checkbook to your new partner and let them run with it, they’re not a partner for you yet. You’ve got to have that level of trust, that level of belief that this person, man, it wouldn’t matter, I’d give them my checkbook, they’ll take care of me like they are me. Totally trust them. If not, you can still do joint ventures, just don’t go into business. I lost a lot of money in that transaction, but it was the single most important lesson of my life. For business, business lesson. 


Chris Ippolito 14:50 

Yeah, that would be tough. As much as I work on not allowing my emotions to control me, not having gone through something to that extent, I can only imagine the emotions that you were experiencing throughout that. 


Tom Matzen 15:10 

Well, it was staggering, it was staggering. Because as entrepreneurs and for those of you that are thinking of making the leap, one of the characteristics of a good entrepreneur is you want accountability on your shoulders. Right? You want the puck in the final few minutes. Right? You want the shot at the three-point line when the game is on the line. You want that. If you don’t want that, you don’t want to be an entrepreneur. 


What happens when you go through something traumatic like this, you blame yourself, 100%. Now in this situation I had stepped down from the C-suite. I had stepped down from the board, which wasn’t planned for two years but he made it a condition of the deal. Now we know why. Because the check and balance would have been there. I mean I totally had lots of reasons to blame myself, but in the end there was nothing I could have done, nothing I could have done in that scenario, except not hire the shark. Except not hire the shark. But this guy was so qualified for what we wanted to do and had such résumé, background, personality, charm, and the ability to raise capital in the markets as we grew. 


It took a long time though to get out of the blame game, right? Pointing at that person and three fingers are coming back, we all know that analogy. When you put at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you. It took a long time. I was mad, bitter, and frustrated, yeah, several years. Ultimately it ended my marriage, Chris. Ultimately it ended my marriage five more years later. 


The cascading effect of these things. People hear about business failures and they think, “Oh, that’s bad.” But if you’ve ever known anyone that’s gone through it, it almost always ends in divorce, it almost always ends in family stress, trauma, and sometimes much worse. I never treat a business failure lightly, anyone’s. As a result, I’ve become a pretty good friend or advisor when people are going through problems. It’s like, “Okay, this too shall pass, friend. Don’t worry about it, let’s talk about the real problems here. Because that’s not really a problem. You think it’s a problem, but it’s not really. Let’s talk.” 


Chris Ippolito 17:21 

Yeah. Which is the value of having someone in your corner who’s gone through a lot of these types of experiences. 


Tom Matzen 17:28 

Yeah. A lot of people forget you can get people like that on your advisory board for next to nothing in the beginning. A cup of coffee. Right? A cup of coffee, a glass of wine, a friendly word. Amazing entrepreneurs that have been there, done that, got the T-shirt will help you if you just ask. My private coaching rate is $2,500 U.S. an hour and I will sit as an advisor for free. Why is that? Because they asked. They asked. I like them, we had some rapport, there was something about where they’re going, I shared their vision or their mission. 


For me it’s a value screen. Right? Because I’ve learned that. But I don’t charge them my going rate, they couldn’t. The people I help out in that situation, I don’t. We give away scholarships to our main program today, it’s a $10,000-dollar program. We give it away. We’ll talk about it maybe at some point on the call today, for those listening in. Why do we do that? Because we want to serve. Entrepreneurs fundamentally want to serve. Right? We want to serve our clients, we want to help them do great things in the world. 


Yes, in a free society, if you serve and bring value, guess what? You get paid. You get compensated for it. You should. By the way, for those listening in, if you’re not getting paid well, you’re probably not bringing lots of value to the marketplace. I remember hearing that as a young entrepreneur and getting so pissed off when I heard that. Because I wasn’t bringing in the money I wanted to bring in. It was like, “Well, there’s probably one of those fundamental laws at play here.” If you’re not, there’s something to look at and it’s probably your strategy, not you. I want to be clear, it’s probably not, it’s your strategy. Change your strategy and change your income, change your life. You, you can’t change you. You are you. Right? You’ve got strengths and weaknesses like everybody else. Your strategy you can change like that. 


Chris Ippolito 19:21 

Yeah. That was one of the things I wanted to chat with you today, was actually one of the strategies that you teach on, which is how to get top experts in your respective field to promote you to their list. Because there’s a very common saying in marketing, “The money is in the list.” It should be repeated, “The money is in the list.” Grow your list and your business will grow. When I saw that, that course, I was like, “That’s it, that’s what I want to talk to Tom about.” Because for me that is a big focus of what I’m doing, or attempting to do anyways, with the podcast, the business, is growing a mailing list. Because I know it’s that list that will become the asset, regardless of whether the podcast shifts and I do something different or I shit businesses or whatever it is. I’d love to explore that a little bit. Obviously we’re not going to be able to get into the thick of things because I’m sure it’s a longer course. 


Tom Matzen 20:30 

Well, it’s a three-hour master class we do for free, we can actually get the links to people later. But we can certainly cover all five strategies in the time we have. 


Chris Ippolito 20:37 

Perfect. Let’s do that. Do you mind running through those five? 


Tom Matzen 20:41 

Well, before we do, let’s talk about why it’s so important for people tuning in. 


Chris Ippolito 20:45 



Tom Matzen 20:45 

Because there’s two parts to what you said that are so important. First off, the list. I actually call it a tribe. I call it a tribe, not a list, for one very important reason. A list that doesn’t care about you, what you’re doing, and the journey you’re on is digital waste, it’s not something valuable. I used to play that game and it’s just not. On the other hand, someone who opts in and they care about you, your podcast, Chris, the message you’re sharing, and what you’re doing, that has the potential to become a raving fan. 5,000 tribe members will lead to 500 raving fans. 500 raving fans, you have a seven-figure business. Plain and simple. 


In fact, my Twitter handle is @ravingfans4life. Because the whole purpose of business is to create raving fans. A lot of people don’t know that. Sorry, Michael Gerber, it’s not more profit or more life, it’s to create raving fans. Raving fans are more loyal when you mess up, lord knows I need that, most of us need that, number one. Number two, they willingly refer people to you unsolicited. Because they’re a raving fan. They’re not just a happy customer, they’re a raving fan. Number three, they seek you out to spend more with you and go deeper with you. That’s the business you want to think about. It’s not customers or clients, or not happy clients, it’s raving fans. 


That all comes from building a tribe. The easiest, fastest way to do that is by finding someone else that has your tribe in their audience and add value to their audience. We’ll talk about different ways to get in front of that in a moment. But if you can do that well, you can cut years off your learning curve, years. There are strategies now I’ll share with you today that would have cut my 36-year journey in a quarter and produced far more results. But I didn’t know them then, I didn’t know them then. There weren’t podcasts then. There wasn’t even darn google.com then. 


Shall we jump into some of the five strategies? 


Chris Ippolito 22:57 

Yeah, I’m very eager to hear some of these. 


Tom Matzen 22:59 

All right. The first one, if you’re going to swing above your paygrade, and that’s what we’re talking about here, right? We’re talking about interviewing people or getting on their shows or getting involved in their summits that are way beyond where you’re currently at. They’re not better people than you, they’re just further down the journey than you. Therefore they have a bigger tribe, almost always. They have more influence, more income, and more impact. 


The first is you’ve got to appeal to nobler instincts. You need to appeal to nobler instincts. You need to talk about the benefit and the transformation of your work on their tribe. So important. I get people approaching me all the time to be on summits or giveaways or interviews or podcasts all the time and it amazes me how little context there is around this. Right? See, our job is not to promote you, the listener. Our job is to help our tribe. You need to speak in languages that help our tribe. “How will it help our tribe?” You can talk about the penalty of not taking action if you want a little bit. But if you’re really batting above your paygrade, there’s not a lot of leverage on that. 


Chris Ippolito 24:15 

No. Because I can just go make more money elsewhere. 


Tom Matzen 24:20 

Yeah. Now one of the easiest ways to do this is to create what I call a strategic philanthropy relationship. I’ll give you an example. Last year we did this summit, an online summit, called the Do Good and Make Money Super Summit. 90 people we interviewed, Chris. We had breakouts, we had main stage, we had keynotes, all cyber. We had four tracks, start-up, first 100,000, first million, scaling to eight figures. We had eight different topics, it was this massive summit. I had people speak on that summit that I’d known for decades and had never, ever said “yes.” Said “yes, yes, yes.” 


Why? Because we were adding value to them, 100% of the net proceeds were going to two nonprofits. We were very clear up front one was run by us and one was run by our partners, what the proceeds were for, how it was going to work, and the structure behind it. We positioned it so that they could get maximum value from their little commitment of time, and/or promotion marketing side support if they were going to do that, too. We were crystal clear on the game we were playing and we built it around, I call it, strategic philanthropy. Right? Doing good and making money at the same time. All right? Does that make sense? 


Chris Ippolito 25:39 

Yeah. It sounds like, and to summarize it, it’s really “what’s in it for me,” answering that question on their behalf, right? 


Tom Matzen 25:50 

“What’s in it for my tribe?” 


Chris Ippolito 25:52 

“My tribe,” that’s right, okay. 


Tom Matzen 25:54 

Yeah, “my tribe.” “What’s in it for my tribe?” Not “me,” not “me.” That’s what a lot of people make the mistake, I’m glad you stumbled on that. A lot of people make the mistake of, “Well, Jay Abraham will promote me because I can give him a commission.” Jay Abraham makes a million bucks falling off his chair. He’s not going to make a commission of $500 and, “Oh, wow, thanks, Chris. $500, yay, I could buy a nice bottle of Pinot noir.” Right? He’s not going to care about that. But if your message helps his tribe, he will care. 


Chris Ippolito 26:27 

Right. Because at this point they’ve gotten to the point where their whole business, and not even the business, it’s like they perceive their purpose as serving their tribe. Right? 


Tom Matzen 26:38 



Chris Ippolito 26:39 

Okay. That’s why, okay, that makes sense. 


Tom Matzen 26:41 

The next part, the next key to attracting the top experts is one that a lot of people aren’t going to like, and I call it get all your ducks in a row. Get all your ducks in a row. This is a ton of work. If you’re going to get someone to promote for you, you have to be ready, you have to have e-mail copy, or what they call swipe copy, with tested headlines. Do not have your marketing partners be your guinea pigs. That is just rude, it’s absolutely rude. 


You’ve got to have your social media posts with images, your opt-in pages, your opt-in forms, your landing pages, your cart abandonment e-mails if it’s part of it. If you’re doing low-ticket offers, your up-sells or cross-sells. Your Infusion Software, Ontraport software to track referrals. All that needs to be in place as one of the ducks in a row. You also need to have a message, you need to have a clear, focused message, what some people call a signature talk. Right? You’ve probably heard that term, Chris, a signature talk. 


Chris Ippolito 27:40 



Tom Matzen 27:40 

Where you have clear, powerful outcomes, you know what you’re going to talk about, and you can do it in 15 minutes, you can do it in 55 minutes. Right? With more stories and examples, but the key points are the same all the way through. You need to have that, you need to have that and be ready for it, otherwise you’re not going to provide value. By the way, the old model used to be you’ve got five things to teach to your method, teach one or two of them and tease the other three. “Come and get my free handout and you’ll learn the other ones.” That is such BS. Nobody wants to be manipulated. I don’t care who you are. Even manipulators don’t want to be manipulated. Right? Today even more so than ever. 


We don’t do webinars anymore, we do master classes. What’s the difference? Well, a webinar is 30, 45 minutes, 55 minutes and the purpose is to sell you shit. Oops. Did I say that on the air? To sell you something. That’s the purpose, right? To sell you something. Master classes our purpose is to train you, educate you, and inspire you to take action in your life. Oh, and by the way, we have an offer, which is help you do this. It’s a totally different mindset. In fact, we design our master classes for people that will never talk to us again. They come to the master class, they get three hours of deep-dive training, we’ll never hear from them again, that’s who we design it for. Lo and behold, we get lots of people apply for strategy sessions and lots of those qualify. We do very fine, thank you, on our sales. But that’s not what the purpose is. That’s the byproduct of the purpose. Right? You’ve got to have a good, clear message for that. 


The third part of getting your ducks in a row is you’ve got to be ready for interviews. You’ve got to have a good headshot that looks like you’re a human being, not like someone who’s wanted at the border for smuggling stuff across. You need to have a short bio and a long bio, because not everyone uses your bio. I know that comes as a shock to you, but my full bio takes 45 seconds to read. Podcast-wise hardly anyone reads the full bio because they’re chop, chop, chop. I’m doing a main stage, I’m doing a keynote presentation, they read every damn word. In fact, I actually write it in the contract, Chris, that they must read every word. Because I’ve learned if you don’t, they don’t. Even on a keynote. Why is that important? Because in a keynote or some major presentation you need the audience to understand your background, your context, your history, and why they should listen. You don’t want to be wasting time telling them that in your talk, you want to be teaching, motivating, and inspiring them instead. 


You need a Q&A sheet. If you’re going to do radio especially, or lots of podcasts, you need to do a Q&A sheet. What’s a Q&A sheet? It is list of frequently asked questions that you wish people would ask you, and you correspondingly have the answers prepared. You send the questions out in advance as part of your kit. Especially when you’re on radio, this is so important. Talk radio, radio, is a great way to get your message out. It doesn’t have to be podcasts, it can be conventional radio, they still exist. They’re desperate for good, awesome guests. 


The first time I had a Q&A sheet, I’ll never forget this, Chris, it was a radio station in Detroit. We’d done of these for the first time and there were 18 questions. The interview was the first 13 questions in order. It was crazy, absolutely crazy. They were so grateful and appreciative. Not only did they bring me back, not only did they plug my offer, which was a free whatever, whatever at the time, really well, but they spread the word to all of their cohorts in the syndicated network, I got all kinds of radio shows out of it. “This guy is a pro,” that’s what a Q&A sheet means. “This guy is a pro.” 


You’ve got to make sure you have it and you’ve got at least 15 questions. By the way, not all fluffy, please. There’s got to be some hardball. At the time I was doing franchises. One of the questions was, “Aren’t most franchises a rip-off?” That was one of the questions on my Q&A sheet. My answer is, “Absolutely, you are correct. Let me give you some examples.” Then I would give examples, as a franchisor, of why franchises were a rip-off. 


Guess what two or three questions down the list was? “Tom, are there any examples of a good franchise?” “Well, so glad you asked, Chris, let me tell you about some good ones.” Of course, I’d give an example, example, and sandwiched in would be me and our brand. But I would be specific relative to the bad stuff I’d shared earlier. I wasn’t blowing smoke, I was like, “No, yeah, we don’t do that. Hidden markups on products where you have to buy it no matter what? That’s ridiculous, shouldn’t be done. Right? That’s terrible commerce, to rip off your own customers. We don’t do that, it’s actually in our contract. In fact, in our contract, if we don’t get you the best price, we get fined, not you.” “What, really? How does that work?” That would be part of the discussion. Right? 


You’ve got to get all your ducks in a row. It takes a bit of work to have those tools in place, but it doesn’t take that long. Right? It doesn’t take that long, it’s pretty cool. Any questions about that, getting your ducks in a row? 


Chris Ippolito 33:04 

No, I would say that one so far has really spoken to me for the fact that I feel like that’s one of the things I know I need to do more of then. I’ve had some of those assets to help, but not enough, is basically how I feel now. But that’s okay. 


Tom Matzen 33:25 

Yeah. It’s a tough bit of news, but when you get someone at that level ready to play with you, if you don’t have it, you lose that chance. You lose that chance. 


Chris Ippolito 33:36 

That’s why I’m like, “You know what? That’s okay because if I want to reach higher, I’ve got to just step up my game and elevate it,” right? 


Tom Matzen 33:43 

The good news is once you know what you’re looking for, it doesn’t take long. Like you don’t even have to know what the heck a Q&A sheet is beyond what I just told you, get on Dr. Google, right? Say “Q&A media sheet,” “Q&A sheet sample,” “Q&A media sample,” and four or five combinations, you’ll have a dozen of them. Right? Then you could look at them, see, and go, “Oh, yeah, that’s great. Okay, good.” You’ve got the idea and away you go. 


Chris Ippolito 34:06 

Yeah. I call that process R&D, which stands for rip off and duplicate. 


Tom Matzen 34:11 

That’s right. Here’s an old adage. If you copy one person, it’s plagiarism. If you copy three people, it’s research. By the way, in law that’s the case, too. If your product is a result of three people’s work, it is legal and research. If it’s the result of one person’s work you’re modeling, it is actually plagiarism, in law. There’s some legal background to that, too. You need to do your homework on it and you’ll love it. 


Okay, the next three strategies though are advanced strategies. All right? These are strategies not for the faint of heart, but the ones that can short-circuit the process and get you there really quick. This next one is my favorite, I stumbled across this strategy. I’ve got to say, I didn’t think it up or invent it. I stumbled across it by accident. It’s buy your way in. Buy your way in. What does that look like? In a live event it’s called a paid speaking gig, where you pay to be a speaker on their stage. Well, why the heck would you do that? Because you can make a lot of money paying to be a speaker on a stage if you’ve got a compelling offer, if you’ve got an audience match, if you know how to present your signature talk in a way that makes sense. 


I’ve had, gosh, over 2,000 live presentations, probably over 3,500 cyber and live presentations, in my life where I’ve been the speaker, one form or another. Literally thousands, okay? The most I’ve ever been paid to speak is $12,500. Ask me the most I’ve made on a stage. 


Chris Ippolito 35:56 

Yeah, how much, what is it? 


Tom Matzen 35:58 

$250,000 over two hours. Would that person have paid me $250,000? No. As it turns out, they made $250,000, as well. Now I had a partner, I didn’t put $250,000 in my pocket, to be fair, but we, the two of us, we put $250,000 in our company’s pocket and they put $250,000 in their pocket. It happened to be T. Harv Eker’s Guerrilla Business School the first year we did it. We did it for several years because he loved us. Why? Because we made him a lot of money. We made him a lot of money. 


Today when you’re getting started, if you know what you’re doing, you’ve got a compelling offer, and a value proposition, you can buy your way on main stage, you can buy your way on breakout stages. Those two venues can be super lucrative. To getting the full revenue-share deals, you’ve got to have a track record, you’ve got to have a reputation. Those are not easy because people don’t give those away easily because they’re very risky in terms of if you suck, they suck. You don’t get those types of deals easily until you’ve earned your right. But the paid ones, almost every event out there, they’ll check your references, but they’ll take your money. They’ll take your money. It’s a great way to do that. 


Look for speaking spots always. Right? Make sure it’s an audience fit. If you’re going to do this, be ready for their chaos. I’ll tell you they always bump you, move you, juggle you. If you’re a minor speaker who’s paid to be there, frankly most event coordinators think you’re a disposable commodity. It blows my mind, blows my mind how disposable. 


There’s a guy whose name I won’t share, we were a paid sponsor, in this particular case that meant we got two minutes on the stage and a booth in the back outside in the hall. Two minutes. Day one, pre-negotiated, day one two minutes. Get there and the event coordinator says, “Yeah, I’ve got some bad news. You won’t be able to speak on day one, we’ve changed the schedule, you’re going to speak on day three.” On a three-and-a-half-day event. I said, “Really? That’s terrible. I’ve got bad news for you.” They said, “What do you mean?” This was the event coordinator, not the organizer, the big name. 


I said to the event coordinator, who I know really well, I said, “I really appreciate it, I know it’s not you, but the next thing I’m going to be doing is calling my California attorney, he’ll be coming down with a lawsuit today, and I’ll get all the other sponsors on that. Because obviously we can’t get a return on our investment, we’ll have to sue you for all the cost of this event. I brought a team of people here, we actually have three sponsorships. We’ll have to do that. Nothing personal, of course, you understand. But you changed the schedule on us and changed the contract.” 


She said, “Give me a chance, give me a chance.” I said, “Okay, no problem.” I wasn’t upset, I wasn’t mad, I didn’t scream and yell, I just told her the facts. I didn’t have a California lawyer, but I was going to find one really quickly. They came back and said, “Yeah, we’ll put you on the stage, we’ll put you on the stage.” We got our time back, but, I mean, we literally had to threaten that. What type of merchant is that? Where his only people who paid him money, everyone else came for free. We paid to be on that stage. But you’re a disposable commodity, you’ve got to know that. If you’re going to play the paid game, you’ve got to be ready for being jerked around and be flexible. If you’re flexible, boy, they’re going to love you. They’re going to love you. 


Does that strategy make sense? 


Chris Ippolito 39:23 

Yeah, that one makes sense. A question on that one is it sounds like the second strategy really should get refined before you even consider this third advanced one? 


Tom Matzen 39:36 

Well, good question. I would say it depends. It would depend. Because if you have a compelling offer but not all the swipe copy, links, landing pages, and all that, you can actually make enough money to develop all that other stuff off of one good paid presentation. 


Chris Ippolito 39:53 

That’s true. 


Tom Matzen 39:55 

Right? The last time I did a paid speaking gig, and now I do mostly rev shares, revenue-share arrangements, but the last time I did a paid one I was a sponsor of a kickoff event by a guy I knew. It was the first time he was doing this event, but he was going to have 200 people in the room and my target audience. It was $5,000 and we got to spend 15 minutes at lunch each day while they were eating food. Very risky strategy, by the way. 


Chris Ippolito 40:19 

Yeah. Because they’re super distracted. 


Tom Matzen 40:22 

Yeah. But that was the only slot I could get. Well, we turned that into six figures of business. We turned that into six figures of business. You can monetize anything if you’ve got a good, compelling offer. By the way, what we presented we didn’t have when we said “yes.” Chris, we didn’t have it. But what we did was a real good understanding that that audience was our audience and we designed something for them that they literally would want to stop eating and tune in. That’s exactly what happened, it was so awesome, we had a lot of fun with it. 


Now to be fair, he moved us outside. It wasn’t bad enough it was supposed to be inside in the hall, he moved us outside. Because we were in San Diego and it was so sunny, he said, “We’ve got to go outside, I hope you don’t mind.” I go, “Yeah, we mind, no one can hear us.” “Oh, we’ll have speakers.” I said, “They’re not going to hear us.” Half the room could hear us. It still worked out. Remember I said you’ve got to be flexible? Right? Make sure your contract is solid, but also be flexible. We could have been jerks, we could have been A-holes, yelled, and screamed. He was moving them outside for lunch why? Because it’s a better lunch experience. They’re in San Diego, right? Outside, sunny, palm trees. Come on. 


Chris Ippolito 41:33 

Better for him. Maybe this is a little bit of fear or reluctance on my part, but would it make sense then to try your hand at smaller events and just get more comfortable on stage as a speaker? 


Tom Matzen 41:51 

Yeah. Definitely, definitely, definitely. You don’t want to do a paid gig as your very first time testing your offer. You want to test your offer. But here’s the thing. Smaller gigs in front of the wrong audience isn’t testing your offer. 


Chris Ippolito 42:06 

Right, that’s true. 


Tom Matzen 42:07 

It isn’t testing your offer. The good news today is you can test your offer on a cyber audience real easy. Real easy. Like we’re going to offer a scholarship for people that want to build their authority and turn it into a high-ticket program, we’re going to offer a scholarship to that to people listening today. I’ll know whether that offer resonated with Chris’ audience by whether or not people sign up once this is broadcast out in the universe. I’ll know, it won’t be a mystery. It will either work or it won’t work. I’m giving away the knowledge and information anyhow, it doesn’t matter to me, in that sense. I’m not risking my whole business on it, I’m giving it away. Right? That’s an advanced strategy, by the way. People, do not give away your high-ticket programs until you know what you’re doing. But I love it, it’s great, it makes the world a better place, and it turns out it’s extremely lucrative for us because people become raving fans and refer us to other people. 


If you know what you’re doing and you know your offer will resonate, absolutely. But most of us don’t. When we start, most of us don’t even have a clue. The danger though, I’ve noticed, is people get advice from people who don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to speaking. Or haven’t done it, haven’t actually earned their money that way. They get really dangerous advice about mechanics as opposed to connection, as opposed to making a difference in someone’s life. You never really know if your offer has landed. Because you suck. I mean not you as a person, you as a speaker. 


Chris Ippolito 43:35 

Right. Your skill set is not there yet. 


Tom Matzen 43:38 

“Your skill set is not there yet.” Thank you, Mom. Dad would say, “You suck.” Right? The nice thing about getting paid to speak is you know, there’s no mystery. You know it worked or didn’t work. Right? You know. That’s what I love about it, frankly. Right? As we’re recording this, we’re creating a brand-new master class we’re going to broadcast in a couple weeks and it’s all about how to ethically profit from the chaos of this pandemic. Right? I hope by the time this broadcasts people go, “Pandemic? What pandemic?” I fear not, but I hope so. We’re going to literally go out and say, “Hey, how can you ethically profit from the chaos?” Not survive, that’s what most people are talking about. Right? “Get through it.” Forget “get through it,” we’re entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs should thrive through the process. Ethically thrive, absolutely. 


That’s a high bar, a high challenge. We’re going to find out if we’re resonating by how people respond to the content and how people respond to the offer, which will be a different scholarship offer, and whether they send us love, which is reviews. When you’re doing online things, love is reviews. Those listening today, if you don’t know that, please appreciate this. If you love the content of this chat with Chris and I, or any other of Chris’ chats, you share the love by going to the podcast platforms he’s on and give a review. That’s how you say “thanks” to Chris and Tom, that’s how you say “thanks.” You don’t track us down on social media and send us a “thank you” note privately. You could do that, too, that’s fine, we like that, we have no problem with that. Connect with us on LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever and say “hi,” great. But that’s not how you show love. In the digital world you show love by posting a review. Posting a review. You need to know that. The same thing happens when you’re working for any of those big speakers, right? By the way, you need to do that. You need to show some genuine love to them. Not false love, but genuine love. 


All right, time for the next two strategies, super strategies? 


Chris Ippolito 45:41 

Yeah, absolutely. 


Tom Matzen 45:43 

This one is a simple strategy, but, boy, oh boy, it’s important with the big boys and girls. That is cloning. Cloning. Can I use her name? Yeah, because she’s very transparent about this. Loral Langemeier is one of the top speakers in the “make money” world, I think she called herself Millionaire Maker right now. Loral Langemeier, some of you may have heard of her, some of you may have been to some of her events. I think she’s brilliant. She’s not my taste, but I think she’s brilliant. Just full transparency. But she’s got some really, really smart strategies on how to make a lot of money. If you ever get Loral to promote you, she’s the one I learned this strategy from, she will have you take your opt-in page, Chris, clone it on her site, have her opt-in form gather the leads, and send you the names of the people that buy. You don’t get to collect names from her list, period. But she’s got 750,000 people on her list. 


Would you put up with just the results, the opt-ins that monetize? 


Chris Ippolito 46:56 



Tom Matzen 46:58 

Or would you say, “No way, you have to use my landing page, Ms. Langemeier”? Well, then she’d say, “Bye-bye, bye-bye.” The really heavy hitters, if you can figure out what cloning is, which your tech guys can sort out for you in no time, and offer it in advance, now you’re a rock star who understands the game. Now your chances of them saying “yes” went way up. Because you’re no longer an amateur, now you’re a rock star. Does that make sense? 


Chris Ippolito 47:30 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 


Tom Matzen 47:32 

Yeah. They protect their data. 


Chris Ippolito 47:35 

As they should. I mean they’ve worked hard to get to that point. That’s the thing, is they’re still offering to support you and help you out, they’re just doing it in a different way. I mean, really, if you’re not grateful for that, then you probably are in the wrong business anyway. 


Tom Matzen 47:58 

Totally, totally. By the way, not all the big boys and girls want that. But those that do, if you don’t want to play that game, they don’t want to talk to you. They don’t want to talk to you. 


The last strategy is actually seven mini strategies wrapped into one. It’s you want to avoid being ripped off by your partner. You want to avoid being ripped off by your partner. This is a handout we would give out to promote that master class that you were talking about on this very topic. Because I’ve done so many joint ventures and so many strategic alliances over the years that, when I started looking back at what was the difference between good ones and bad ones, there was a pattern. It came down to seven things, seven things that got me from, “Boy you’re stupid, Tom,” to, “You just missed one of these seven things.” In fact, when I look back, every single time one of these seven was there, sometimes two or three. Sometimes two or three. I have a little quote I like to say when you think you’re feeling stupid. Right? Take a moment to remember there are people who think the space program is fake and professional wrestling is real. Okay? It’s all relative. 


Do you want to hear the seven ways to make sure you don’t get ripped off? 


Chris Ippolito 49:15 

Yeah, absolutely. 


Tom Matzen 49:17 

Number one, you must understand what’s in it for them. What’s in it for them? Right? If they have a huge list, it’s not about a list build, they’re not going to do this because of a list build. Right? When I had people speak at that summit I was telling you about and got some of these big names that had never spoken on any of my events before, I was fully transparent to say, “You’re not going to get a lot of names. You’re a speaker at an online summit, you’ll get 30 to 70 opt-ins, chances are.” Everyone I said that to said, “Thank you for your honesty, Tom, I really appreciate that.” Then I would immediately follow up with, “But here’s what I will promise you.” I had figured out, based on them, what’s in it for them. What’s in it for them. You have to have a clear understanding of what’s in it for them. 


Number two, you’ve got to understand is what’s in it for them consistent with their core business. Consistent with their core business. T. R. Garland is one of the heavy hitters in the, what we would call, heart-centered entrepreneur movement space. He’s based out of San Diego. I asked T. R. to be a keynote speaker at the same summit. He’d never spoken at any of my events before. I knew T. R. in a passing way, but not well. But I also knew this. He raised money for his daughter’s charity like he breathed. 


My approach was, “As keynote speaker, we get to have a cause to go with you. How about we have your daughter’s cause, and it’s the cause of the day for the summit?” He said, “How do I say ‘yes,’ Tom?” It was a five-second conversation. The rest of the conversation was, “How do we make it work for everyone? How do we make it work?” Again, I didn’t promise we’d raise a lot of money for that, I promised we’d raise a lot of awareness and we’d promote it all day long, which we did. Right? We didn’t overpromise, but what’s in it for them was consistent with their core business. Follow me? 


Chris Ippolito 51:17 



Tom Matzen 51:18 

In bigger organizations, “Do they have a strong internal champion?” This is so important. Someone will say “yes,” because you’ll meet someone from Thinkific and they’ll go, “Yeah, let’s sponsor you. We’ll do this and we’ll do this.” Then they come back or they stall, they stall, they stall, and you have no strong internal champion in these large tech companies. Because in the technology world you need a raving fan if you want someone to go to bat and change a policy. In business we call it a strong internal champion, number three. 


Number four, “Do they have the sufficient resources to hold up their end of the bargain?” Right? Do they have the resources to hold up their end of the bargain? It’s usually the flip side now, you’re dealing with an entrepreneur. They mean well, but do they have the resources to put together what you need in a timely manner so that you can hit your deadlines? So that you can hit your deadlines. Because here’s the news flash. Your big program is not their number one priority. Nor should it be. Right? I mean if they are, they’re an idiot, right? Unless you guys planned it to be their number one priority from scratch, why would your initiative be their number one initiative? You’ve got to make sure the resources are there. What are the resources that count? Time, money, and influence. Time, money, and influence. You’ve got to have all three. 


Does this initiative, whatever you’re working on, meet your partner’s ROI hurdle rate? Which is a fancy way of saying, “Is it worth their while?” Is it worth their while? If they’re doing it for opt-ins and only because of opt-ins, you’re a new giveaway host or summit host and you can’t guarantee opt-ins, you’ve got to say that, brother. You’ve got to come out and say that. There are other ways to help them with that goal. Right? You could put a Facebook pixel from their Facebook account on your site and get them all the traffic, not just the opt-ins. Right? There’s a little hack trick there for you guys. 


Chris Ippolito 53:13 

That’s a good one, I like that one. 


Tom Matzen 53:15 

Right? It’s a really simple one to give some extra high-value people some loving. Right? But it’s got to meet their ROI hurdle rate. In our case, when we are asked to promote someone else’s material, my only questions is, “Show me your free material and how it will help my tribe. How will it help my tribe?” That’s my ROI hurdle rate. 


Then the last two, “Would you hire their lead on this project? What type of people are you dealing with?” If you wouldn’t hire them in your company, you will get ripped off. You will get ripped off. If they’re a flake and you’re like, “I’d never hire this person,” you will get ripped off. Now ripped off in the sense of active rip-off is one level, but passive ripped off happens way more. They just don’t get around to it. 


Those are the seven ways to avoid being ripped off. If you line up those five strategies, including those seven ways, you will be able to build high-trust relationships, you’ll be able to open up doors you’ve never thought possible. If you follow up like a crazy man or crazy woman, show genuine concern, and genuinely build rapport, they’ll introduce you to all kinds of other people. Because I’m telling you, Chris, as sure as I’m sitting here today, 20% of the people out there do this and 80% don’t. If you’re in that 20% camp, we tell each other. We tell each other. Word gets around. Word gets around just as fast the other direction, of course. 


Chris Ippolito 54:44 

Yeah. Sometimes faster. 


Tom Matzen 54:45 

But the good direction is what you want and what you want to do. If you want to play the same game Chris wants to play, that’s what you need to do. Does that make sense? 


Chris Ippolito 54:53 

Yeah, it does. You had mentioned, I think it was before our call, maybe it was earlier in our conversation, that one of the key things about this whole strategy was also making sure you’re picking the right people. Right? Like don’t go and waste your energy on the wrong targets. Was that that last thing that you shared about the seven? 


Tom Matzen 55:15 

No, that’s different. That’s different, that’s a really good point. Who are the people you want to be your top experts, promotional partners, are what I call your dream 100. I learned this from Chet Holmes and Jay Abraham, they were teaching it together. Your dream 100 are who are the 100 people that, if they became a raving fan of you and your business, would have a massively profound impact on your life going forward. 


They’re not necessarily Oprah. Or, as I used to say, Donald Trump. Right? Now you can’t say that because it’s good news/bad news, depending on who you’re talking to, right? If a lot of Canadians are listening in, mainly bad news, right? But Oprah, people can relate to that, “Oh yeah, Oprah would be in my dream 100 list.” Yeah, but would she? Would she really be on your dream 100 list? Because it will take you years to penetrate that audience, if ever. If she became a raving fan, would she have a profound impact on your business? People in the financial industry used to always say “Warren Buffett.” Warren Buffet is not going to recommend Tom Matzen. Right? Or Chris, as a financial advisor. Get off your high horse, Warren Buffett is not on your dream 100. The President of the Chamber of Commerce might be, the head of bank financing at RBC in your area might be, the head of the Treasury Branch in Alberta might be, but not Warren Buffett. 


The dream 100 needs to be people that literally, if they became raving fans, would have a profound impact on you and what you do. That’s how you pick your dream 100. 


Chris Ippolito 56:47 

A big one for digital marketers nowadays is Gary Vaynerchuk. 


Tom Matzen 56:52 



Chris Ippolito 56:52 

Right? They’re like, “Oh, my dream 100 has Gary Vaynerchuk.” Which, yeah, especially if you’re in that right space, that would help. But everybody who’s in that space is trying to get his attention. If you see the way he works, as much as he attempts too, there’s just no way he’s going to be able to give attention to everybody. He even says it, “If you’re going to try and get my attention, you’ve got to do something to really stand out.” 


Tom Matzen 57:24 

Yeah. He’s a great example. Because if you’re in alignment with what he teaches and the values he’s teaching, then it’s worth it. It’s worth it to spend the time, money, and get to know the people who know him. That’s how you really court the big ones. You don’t start with them, you start with the people who know them and have influence over them. Right? That’s one of the keys. Right? By the way, that means the executive assistant for those people, treat them better than you treat those people. Treat them better than you treat those people. Don’t treat them as executive assistants or worse, staff. Right? Treat them better. Right? “Oh, wow, so nice to meet you. Fantastic.” Right? 


I know a guy who used to court Fortune 500 CEOs, and he did it by courting the executive assistants. He would fly into Chicago. He lived in Virginia at the time. You know the distance. He would fly into Chicago, meet the executive assistant, give her a book that he thought she would like, and leave, not even trying to meet the big guy, as part of a strategy of building high trust. Then when the relationship was there, she would insist he met the big guy. Now he happened to sell Motorola phone systems that were $3 to $5 million a pop, because it was a whole network. He could afford to take some time to build that high-trust relationship, right? If you’re selling a book, you’re probably not going to do that. 


Yeah, definitely pick the people you want to get to know well. We’ve been talking strategic alliances. If it’s joint ventures, only bat one level above where you are. I look at joint ventures in C, B, and A. If you’re at the C level of tribe and influence, don’t go for the As. It wastes too much time and money on your part. Go for the Bs and other Cs, absolutely. The people at your level and the people one notch above, absolutely smart when it comes to joint ventures. You want to go for the As, man, you’ve got to have your chops, you’ve got to have all that stuff we talked about getting your ducks in a row, and some. I just find it’s easier, way easier, to play with the Bs. 


Chris Ippolito 59:34 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 


Tom Matzen 59:35 

Cs. By the way, Cs, like small audience groups but really have influence, can be incredibly effective audiences to work with. 


Chris Ippolito 59:44 

Yeah, there’s even a term for them now, micro influencers. 


Tom Matzen 59:47 

“Micro influencers,” I love it. I love it. That’s the first time I’ve heard that, I like it. I love it. 


Chris Ippolito 59:50 

Yeah, it’s super popular on Instagram and TikTok now. 


Tom Matzen 59:56 

Makes sense, makes sense. Which would also explain why I haven’t heard of it. All at the same time because I’m not a TikToker. For those of you listening in in the audio world, you missed me dancing in front of the camera. Too bad for you and fortunate for the rest of us. 


Chris Ippolito 1:00:13 

Tom, this has been an absolute pleasure, tons of gold in here. I know I’m going to be re-listening to this, and probably taking that course. Not “probably,” I will be taking that course. I like to always wrap up the episodes though with asking a question of, coming out of our conversation today, because there was so much value, what would be that one thing though that you would suggest the audience focuses on and puts the energy behind so that they can elevate themselves in this space? 


Tom Matzen 1:00:47 

Great question, I love that. I would go on Amazon, I would take the topic you want to be an authority on, or are an authority on and want to be more of an authority, I would search it, and find the top 20 books on that niche in Amazon. I would take every one of those authors and put them on your dream 100 list right away. Then start the process of high-tech and high-touch outreach to them. Both, don’t just do technology. Right? Send them a lumpy mail, send them some fun in the mail. Find out their address in the first place, that will take some work. Some of those authors will be well-known names. Many will be total strangers, you’ve probably never even heard of them, they’re actually even better. Because they’ll love to hear from you. 


Then stalk them in a good way. Get on LinkedIn, Facebook, all the different platforms that they’re on, join their groups, contribute, add value. There’s a lot of people that can give you advice on how to build high-trust relationships with them, but you know. Don’t be a suck-up, don’t be a goofball. Be awesome, add value. There’s the training. 


Chris Ippolito 1:01:57 

I like that. 


Tom Matzen 1:01:58 

I’m not saying that’s the training program, right? The same thing you’d want for you. Right? The same thing you’d want for you. Don’t be a stalker, be someone supportive. Right? I joke about that part of it, obviously. But do that with the top 20 in your field and you can literally change your destiny. 


Chris Ippolito 1:02:14 

Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. I have a dream 100 on the way, as far as it’s building. Because I found it hard, I’m like, “100 names? That’s a lot of names.” I’ve started adding as I come across names and I’m like, “Oh, they’re on my list.” But I didn’t think of doing that though as far as just being really laser-focused on the niche and finding 20 from that niche. I know I’m going to do that and I suggest everybody else do that. Thank you for that recommendation because that’s fantastic. 


Where can people find you? I know people are going to want to learn more, where is the best place for people to find you online and learn more about what you’re doing? 


Tom Matzen 1:03:00 

The best thing you can do is go to LinkedIn and connect, it’s Tom Matzen, M-A-T-“Zed”-E-N, for our Canadian fans. M-A-T-“Zee”-E-N for everyone else who doesn’t know what a zed is. Connect with me on LinkedIn, and there will be a bunch of links to some awesome training there. But for those of you that have authority or you’re a hidden best-kept secret and you want to have more authority, we want to give you our number one high-ticket program. We teach you how to create your own high-ticket program, how to create, blueprint, validate, and sell it in four months. 


We sell this for $10,000, it comes with 12 coaching calls a month, success partners, training, templates, and everything you could imagine for a paid program worth $10,000. It’s our gift to you as a scholarship if you think you qualify. Right now, just so you guys know, about 82% of the people filling out the application qualify, not everyone gets in. Just know that. But most do, most do. We’ll make sure that Chris has got the link in the show notes down below so that you can go there. If you want to create a six or a seven-figure business packaging your wisdom and knowledge, we’re going to teach you how to do it for free. Because we know we can change the world with entrepreneurs that can get their wisdom and knowledge out there, and we’re going to help you do it as our gift. 


Chris Ippolito 1:04:21 

That is very generous and I will be applying myself. I will compete with everybody! No, I think that’s awesome and I really appreciate the generosity for the audience. Thank you so much, Tom, this has been an absolute pleasure. I know we’re going to continue our conversations because there’s just so much that I feel like I could learn from you. Yeah, thanks, that was fantastic. Take care. 


Tom Matzen 1:04:55 

Bye-bye. Thanks so much, appreciate the time.